Joe: You know what would be great about killing Batman in the third film?
If they kill Batman there’s no chance Warner Brothers can create the League of Justice with an Alien superman, a dude with an alien ring, several other supernatural heroes and one REALLY rich dude.
And I sort of do expect some talk of a League of Justice movie if Avengers does really well.
Someone will say “yeah, and we’ll get the Native American audience with that giant Indian dude, and the general audience with Superman and faggot audience with Green Arrow…”
And so forth.
Steve: “Expect some talk?”
Justice League has been in development hell for longer than Avengers or the Nolan films have been around.
I definitely think a Justice League movie would be sweet if done right.
But “done right” would mean using a very different version of Batman than Nolan’s.
Joe: Right.
I just think putting Batman into a Justice League movie would be a horrible mistake.
Steve: What?
Joe: Avengers can sorta make sense, Justice League doesn’t.
Steve: You can’t do Justice League without Batman.
Joe: Yes you can.
Steve: Oh here we go with your irrational Marvel love coming through.
You’re the polar opposite of Cloribel.
Joe: I …agree with that?
Steve: Cloribel won’t take anything Marvel does seriously because he’s now become a DC fan.
Joe: I’m not saying Marvel is necessarily better than DC. I’m just saying I feel like the Marvel characters mesh better with each other than the DC characters.
Steve: No way.
The Marvel characters aren’t even in the same genre as each other.
Joe: I love when you choose to be a dickhead.
You just choose to be an irrational douche for no reason.
DC blows dude, total joke.
Completely cartoonish in my opinion.
Steve: Dude, chill your rage wagon for a second and listen to reason.
Joe: If it weren’t for Green Lantern I’d have nothing to do with DC shittiness.
Steve: The Avengers are totally different genres.
Thor’s high fantasy, Hulk’s a monster movie, and Captain America’s a war hero.
Iron Man’s the only one that’s a true superhero.
In Justice League you’ve got Superman, Green Lantern, Batman, Wonder Woman.
All superheroes.
Green Lantern could be interpreted as a sci-fi space opera thing, but the others are all solidly in the same genre.
Joe: You’re saying I’m biased?
Steve: Yes.
Because you argue merit based solely on your personal preference.
Example: I remember a conversation with you where you swore Spider-Man could beat the Flash in a fight.
You argued that the guy who jumps around and spins webs can beat the dude who moves at the speed of light.
And every such conversation ends with “DC blows.”
Joe: Okay, I try to be nice to DC, but DC does blow.
It’s fact, it’s in the book of Hebrews
Hebrews 16:11 – DC blows horses.
Steve: You’re nuts.
Right now I’m a DC guy.
Last decade I was a Marvel guy.
You know why?
Writing.
Comic books are exactly as good as the stories being told in them.
That’s all it comes down to.
I should say in movies, I’m actually pro-Marvel right now.
Because Marvel is clearly kicking ass in that department.
But in the actual comics, DC is blowing them out of the water.
Joe: Stop talking and watch this.
Steve: Not until you tell me what your problem with DC is.
Joe: You need to watch the dude excited about his fish.
Steve: I am watching it.
Is this the coolest thing that’s happened to him all day or something?
His town is underwater and he’s happy he caught a big fish?
Joe: Kind of amazing.
In the end, and you can view this opinion for what it’s worth, my ultimate problem with DC is Superman. It’s not that I dislike Superman, it’s that they’ve painted themselves into a wall with his character.
He has to weaken himself to every accomplish anything. When, in the end, he should never be defeated by any enemy. I know his weakness is his love for mankind but I still get annoyed by all of the lore surrounding him.
To me, Superman is DC and I’m just not sold on Superman at all.
Steve: See, that’s always the opinion of people who don’t actually read Superman comics.
This goes back to the same thing I just said.
If Superman is well-written he’s a good character and if he’s badly written, he’s a bad character.
Problem is, most people only care enough to watch the movies and they’ve all been horribly written.
This is kind of my problem with how Hollywood treats comic books in general.
Superman is the most powerful superhero, so in these movies he’s godlike.
Which is not the case at all in the comics.
There’s a long list of ways you can kill him and a long list of enemies that can take him in a fight at full strength.
But that’s not the point.
Even if that wasn’t true, that’s only a flaw if you’re writing a certain kind of story.
But Hollywood cranks out these movies that treat the source material like it’s a joke.
Or that respect the source material, but don’t respect how hard it is to apply it in a different medium.
Only very rarely do we get a movie that manages to respect the source material AND construct a movie competently.
One of those movies was Iron Man.
And the day after it came out, my MOTHER went to the comic book store to check out Iron Man.
Joe: I feel like there is an inherent flaw with the character.
But I’m not just talking about movies, I’m talking about the characters. As a kid, I never related to Superman because he was perfect. Superman’s world is flawd, Superman isn’t. I can’t relate to that, so I never cared.
That’s ultimately the problem I have with him as a character.
DC never interested me at all. Batman was cool, but I wanted nothing to do with Robin. I read Spider-Man, Captain America, the Hulk and a few others because I related.
Steve: Well then you were reading something that was badly written.
Joe: It’s not just writing, regardless of the writing the characters have inherent traits that don’t necessarily change.
Superman doesn’t interest me as a character at all.
I’d love to see something done with him that’s quality, but even if I did, I don’t care enough about him to jump up and down.
Steve: Dude, no one’s saying you have to love Superman, but what you’re saying about him is totally innaccurate.
Captain America and Superman have the same exact personality.
The only difference is their powers.
Joe: Exactly!
Captain American can be killed on earth, Superman can’t.
Steve: That’s not true!
That hasn’t been true since the 70′s.
Unless you only know him from movieland.
Joe: Except for the retarded Kryptonite bullshit that is a ridiculous concept.
Steve: That is also not true!
There’s a hundred ways to kill him in the comics.
When he actually died, he was beaten to death.
And that’s come close to happening a number of times.
Joe: He wasn’t beaten to death by a human was he?
He was beaten to death by some other retarded alien.
Steve: Dude, it’s comic book land. Half the population of earth has superpowers or crazy advanced technology.
Joe: And besides, with all your arguments, we’re discussing preference.
I don’t care about Superman. Not because of the writing, it’s because I don’t care.
I PREFER marvel’s world
Steve: FUCK YOU!
Joe: Spider-Man was flawed, Wolverine was flawed, etc. Batman was flawed, but creaking creepy.
I prefer Spider-Man to the rest.
So, DC Blows and Marvel is awesome.
And Cloribel is retarded.
Steve: That’s fine.
I just don’t understand why you keep saying Superman is perfect or isn’t flawed.
That can only be the opinion of someone who hasn’t read a Superman comic since 1970.
Joe: Okay, give me a Superman flaw.
Steve: Superman has control issues.
Superman fights like a retard.
Superman can’t solve a mystery to save his life unless he has something to punch.
Superman thinks he should be able to be everywhere at once and he can’t.
This is stupid.
We could go on like this forever.
Just quit dissing Superman or I’ll cut your eyeballs in half.
Joe: I like Green Lantern.
Steve: Green Lantern is cool.
Joe: Maybe it’s because I’m more of a Sci-Fi guy than a fantasy guy?
Steve: Yeah, I’ll buy that.
Though Superman is technically sci-fi.
Joe: Marvel seems a bit more scifi-ish. Lots of characters who were experimented on.
Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk were all science experiments gone wrong.
Steve: Here’s my analysis of the two.
As long as we’re talking about their flagship characters and not the less known ones.
Joe: Right.
Steve: So Hulk, Spider-Man, Thor, Cap, Iron Man on one side and Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman, Flash on the other side, etc.
DC characters were all created to be big, iconic symbols of something pure and direct.
While Marvel characters were high-concept ideas and then had superhero images wrapped around them.
For example, Flash: The Fastest Man Alive.
Hulk: Frankenstein meets Jekyl and Hyde.
Superman: Paragon of power and virute.
Spider-Man: Nerd gets superpowers, let’s see what happens.
Captain America is the only exception. He’s the one Marvel hero that should be a DC hero.
People say the reverse about Batman, but I disagree.
Because Batman also represents something very iconic and straightforward, which to me makes him clearly a DC guy.
Joe: Maybe the Green Arrow is such a terrible character that I turned on DC altogether?
Steve: Could be.
Although Green Arrow’s actually been really great to read a lot of the time.
The fact that he dresses like an idiot, fights crime in the stupidest way possible and is an infuriating bleeding heart liberal have all been folded into his character to make him the guy you love to hate.
And recently he straight murdered a dude.
Which for some reason had never happened before even though he fights crime by FIRING FUCKING ARROWS AT PEOPLE.
Joe: Well, in the end, I’m just a Marvel guy. Except for Batman who I think is the lone DC guy (major DC guy) who has no alien/supernatural powers.
He’s the one bitter/angry/vengeful/semi-righteous dude who’s also rich and motivated.
Steve: Yeah, and I lean toward Superman because I like the ideal he stands for.
I like that he fights evil not because he’s got severe mental problems or childhood issues, but just because it’s the right thing to do.
Not to take anything away from Spider-Man or Batman.
But Superman didn’t need a loved one to get shot to know that with great power comes great responsibility.
That’s what I like about him.
Steve: And fuck you, DC rocks.
