Joe: Can Christianity disown Mel Gibson?
Steve: I don’t want to disown Mel Gibson.
The Passion of the Christ and Signs alone should lock him in forever.
So he went on a racist tirade. That sucks, but look who his dad is.
Joe: I’m willing to forgive the Jewish thing, but not divorcing his wife.
Steve: That seems a little backwards to me.
Joe: That piece of shit Catholic makes his own church to be more traditional and then divorces his wife?
My point is, there are two major strikes against him, and one involves his particularly strong religious beliefs.
Steve: Him divorcing his wife is his business.
I hate divorce too, but this is the real world. People do it.
To me, it’s more about what he’s overcome.
Joe: I agree with you mostly, but not for a dude who’s more Catholic than the Pope.
Steve: Which is a lot if you consider his background.
Joe: Not for a dude who introduces the single most influentual film about Jesus, possibly ever.
Steve: I mean for a dude who’s THAT Catholic to even have anywhere near the level of revelation required to make the Passion is amazing.
He had a super racist dad and was raised in a church system that’s 99% spiritually dead.
Then he got super famous and became a well-known druggie/party animal.
Then he got saved and made the Passion.
Of course he’s got issues. He’s still cool in my book.
Joe: mmm… My frustration with anyone who wants to make their mark with their faith is that there has to be consistency. You and I are going to sin, as is any celebrity.
So I don’t have a poor expectation.
Where I have a problem is when sin is not followed by repentance.
Divorce is wrong, especially when you’re so Catholic you think the Pope isn’t Catholic enough.
You don’t get to be a publicly proud Christian who does not hold to his beliefs.
We can’t disown every Christian who makes a public mistake, but I can hold them to some level of consistency in their lives.
Steve: Well, I’m not here to defend the man’s sins, but I think disowning him as a body is exactly the wrong thing to do.
There’s never going to be a celebrity Christian that doesn’t sin.
The world needs to know that’s not what our religion is based on.
Joe: My point isn’t about sin.
It’s about repentance.
Steve: But he did repent. He had one of the most sincere repentances ever by a celebrity douchebag
Joe: For his divorce?
Steve: For his anti-semitic outburst. He doesn’t owe us a repentance for his divorce. That’s between him and his wife.
It’s got nothing to do with the public.
Joe: I disagree. If you get divorced, you don’t owe me an apology.
But a public Christian doesn’t get to sin in private and enjoy public praise.
Mel was a public Christian and made a very public film and presented his faith in a public way.
Then he gets divorced and doesn’t want to discuss it.
That’s just poor form.
Don’t bring out the faith card if you don’t want to be held to the standards.
Steve: I have so many problems with that view I don’t even know where to start.
But I think the primary thing is that I’m glad he’s actually been able to keep his life as private as he has.
If more celebrities succeeded where he has, the world would be a better place.
I don’t care why a stranger got divorced, Christian or not.
It sucks that he did, but for all we know it was really necessary for reasons that would be totally inappropriate to make public.
In fact, I can’t think of a reason for divorce that would be appropriate to make public.
Joe: My point isn’t that I’m prying, people who pry blow.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not justifying the public.
I’m criticizing anyone who wants to be in the public eye on their own terms, especially once they introduce the Christian card.
Steve: Well, a man’s family is his own business, no matter who he is.
And I think you’re misrepresenting his intentions.
It’s not like he was nobody and then walked into the room yelling “I’m so great! I’m gonna be the Christian guy from now on! Everybody watch what I do!”
Dude was already one of the most famous people on the planet, and then he got radically saved.
And then God basically ordered him to make a film that only he could make.
All he did was make a movie.
And give one or two interviews for pretty much the only time in his life.
The fact that said movie was like the hugest deal ever was much more God’s doing than Gibson’s.
Joe: I have a quick question?
Steve: K.
Joe: How do you type with Mel Gibson’s dick in your mouth?
Steve: Dude, you’re lame.
Bottom line is this: Nobody in the world cares that he got divorced. Only extreme right-wingers like you care about that. That’s why nobody’s nailed him down on it in the media and THAT’S why he hasn’t discussed it.
In the end, what people will remember 100 years from now is the movie.
If he was being swarmed with reporters demanding an explanation for his divorce, he might be inclined to give one.
But he’s not. Nobody cares.
Joe: Listen, I don’t care that Tiger banged a thousand chicks, that’s his deal.
I don’t care that any professional athlete or celebrity has affairs, gets STD’s or does drugs or whatever.
I really care about professed believers not counting the cost when they make their faith public.
We look bad enough with Pat Robertson and other televangelists (and by look bad, I mean I can’t bring up Jesus’ name without people thinking about them).
To have Mel A. making anti-Semitic statements, and B. being a horrible Catholic in spite of his whole Catholic thing is embarrassing.
It’s not that I expect believers to be perfect.
I want them to be consistent, and he just isn’t, and it’s a really crappy inconsistency.
Steve: Maybe so, but what I think you’re not taking into account is that Mel Gibson getting divorced doesn’t make us look bad to anyone who’s not already a Christian.
Most non-believers don’t care about divorce.
Joe: That’s not true.
They care when it matters
Steve: Not as nearly as much. That’s why the tirade was a huge media bonanza and the divorce was a footnote.
Joe: I really think you’re wrong on this one.
Steve: I really think you’re wrong.
You’re being very judgmental about a situation you know nothing about.
Joe: I think you’re defending a situation you know very little about.
Steve: All I’m saying is it’s not our business.
And we can’t “disown” a guy for something that’s none of our business.
Joe: My point is, when you choose public life, especially with your faith, your private life doesn’t get to be out of bounds on your own choosing.
Steve: In fact, I rather prefer that there is a fallable Christian in the media.
I’d rather him than Pat Robertson any day.
Because Robertson acts like he’s infallible.
Gibson just lives his life.
Joe: I’m not criticizing his sin, Steve. I’m criticizing the fact that he’s not as open as I think he should be
If your sins aren’t as public as your accomplishments, there’s a problem.
Steve: I disagree. There’s nothing Biblical about forcing a man to strip naked in front of the world.
Joe: uh…Jesus?
Steve: In front of his covenant relationships, yes, but not in front of the camera.
Mel Gibson isn’t some preacher who took a bunch of people’s money and then slept with all his parishioners. That would require an apology to everyone he ever preached to.
He’s a filmmaker who happens to be a Christian and doesn’t like being in the spotlight, with or without his faith.
He’s always been known for that, even before the whole Passion deal.
I don’t require him to change that.
Joe: I only require believers to be consistent.
Steve: Right.
Well, we all should be.
And we’re all not.
And he isn’t either.
Big whoop.
Joe: For a public believer it’s more than a big whoop to me
Steve: So you’ve said.
But honestly, what’s he supposed to do? Hold a press conference and say he’s very sorry, but he’s got to divorce his wife because
… fill in the blank?
That’s bullshit.
Joe: Yes.
Bible says “dont’ desire to be a teacher.”
If you want the praise, you don’t get to trade the mocking.
Steve: When did he desire to be a teacher?
You’re assigning all these roles to him that he doesn’t fit.
He’s just a guy who makes movies.
Joe: Dude.
Are you seriously shrugging that off?
Steve: YES.
You’re making no sense.
Joe: I’m fairly certain “teacher” should be taken for a position of influence, and any person of influence should be aware that they will receive a double judgment.
Film maker, teacher, politician, etc.
Steve: I agree, but you’re skipping over the “desire” part.
Mel Gibson has done nothing his entire life but shun the spotlight.
He is the living epitome of the artist who’s famous against his will.
Joe: He did Lethal Weapon 4.
He Did What Women Want.
He’s a super popular actor who’s a lady’s man.
Let’s not deify him.
Steve: I’m not deifying him. You are. You’re saying that when he reached a certain level of recognition for his gifts, he should have either quit working or thrown his life open for all to see.
No sale.
I’m really not defending his sins.
Divorce sucks.
And I’d bet money his reasons for doing it were not justifiable.
But it’s still nobody’s business but the people involved.
Joe: Because he’s chosen a public life, I disagree.
But I guess that’s where we stand.
Steve: I guess so.
Joe: Last word.
Steve: GOFUCKYOURSELF!
Joe: Nope, I already got the last word.
See, it’s up there.
Last word again.
Final word.
Last word in.
I win.
Steve: Mel Gibson is standing behind you with a knife.
Joe: I wouldn’t be surprised, he’s kinda nuts.
Steve: Why are you so interested in Mel Gibson’s nuts?
Now the truth comes out.
Joe: You’re right.
Steve: You don’t want him to just expose himself to the public, you want him to EXPOSE himself.
Joe: I wanna be nuts to butts with Mel Gibson and Danny Glover.
Steve: They call that a Lethal Weapon Special.
